What was the 'golden era' of MMORPGs?

[Skunkworks]

I'll start by saying that a large portion of my childhood was dedicated to thinking about games and how to play them with other people. I grew up in a rural area. If I wanted to play a video game with another person, it was a deliberate planned event. Naturally, the idea of MMORPGs appealed to me at first pitch. While I was aware (and briefly played) MUDs on local BBS (Legend of the Red Dragon, Star Conquest, etc), I always felt they were inferior products to their single player counterparts. I skipped the first wave of MMORPGs (Ultima Online, Everquest, Meridian) due mainly to cost. However I around for the second wave playing Star Wars Galaxies, World of Warcraft, and Guild Wars. I even dabbled in PSO on the Dreamcast. I haven't been nearly as active on the MMORPG front in over 10 years, but there have been a number of titles that caught my eye including FF14, Warhammer: Age of Reckoning, Fallout 76, New World, and Eve Online.

What do you think the best era for MMORPGs is? What are some of your personal favorites? and What are some of the best memories you have from MMORPGs you've played?

[Skunkworks]

This thread just reminded me of a discussion I had in college. I had an acquaintance who I made friendly conversation, but only within the confines of a particular class (tech writing, in this case). The vast majority of our discussion were focused around the requirements of the course, but occasionally we did discuss the video games we were playing. At the time, I was likely to try to recruit more people to play arena shooters but somehow to topic turned to Star Wars Galaxies. He didn't play, but he was familiar with it and MMORPGs in general. He told me about a Dark Age of Camelot, a PVP-only MMO with three factions themed in Arthurian legend. It had real-time combat for several thousands of combatants, which seemed like a wild idea for time. He even described his guild schedule which seemed overwhelming at the time. I looked it up today, and I think it still exist. They may even be working on a complete graphical overhaul of the game. Anyone have any insight on why some of the oldest MMOs (UO, EQ, Eve) are still strong, while some of the later beloved MMOs have been lost to time?

https://darkageofcamelot.com/

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dark_Age_of_Camelot

[Selbaek]

I'm going to go with the EverQuest/Final Fantasy XI era. That super high risk with super low reward endeavor that cultivated a community of people that wanted to overcome these asinine challenges and were forced to rely on communication and teamwork to get anything done... that's what I believe an MMO should be. EverQuest solidified popularity with that idea, and in my opinion FFXI perfected it. I know plenty of people love PvP, but personally I prefer PvE and the cooperation it heralds.

[Destian]

My apex for MMOs was probably a tiny but still running MMO that used to be Mac-only called "Clan Lord", and despite it being a 2D sprite based game, I've never felt more immersed in an MMO world than that one.

It's why I still lament things like themepark MMOs and the fact that GMs driving the storyline used to actually be a thing that happened in MMOs, and players would struggle to overcome the challenges these GMs set before them.

The landscape has shifted so much since then that it's hard to even remember what it used to be...

[Althena]

I know plenty of people love PvP, but personally I prefer PvE and the cooperation it heralds.

See, I would argue that PvP required a great deal more cooperation than PvE, unless cooperative PvE is specifically baked into to the game idea (I know that in some games, like FFXI, it is). To be good at PvP, you have to have a team that is willing to talk to each other, work together, and plan the strategy of attack, and knowing you can rely on your teammates you back you up and follow though is a fantastic and rewarding feeling. I agree that "solo" PvP is not much fun, though.

I think my favorite era was PSO through early WoW. I played PSO, FFXI, and WoW mostly in those days. I dabbled in a few games after that, like Aion, Star Wars:TOR, Tera, and I finally settled in and am enjoying FFXIV. Those all had good things about them, but they couldn't get me to stay, save for XIV. I couldn't forgive SW:TOR for the way they went with the plot, and Tera was fun, but the Elin had an unforgivable "Ick" factor.

[Selbaek]

See, I would argue that PvP required a great deal more cooperation than PvE, unless cooperative PvE is specifically baked into to the game idea (I know that in some games, like FFXI, it is). To be good at PvP, you have to have a team that is willing to talk to each other, work together, and plan the strategy of attack, and knowing you can rely on your teammates you back you up and follow though is a fantastic and rewarding feeling. I agree that "solo" PvP is not much fun, though.

That wasn't meant to imply that PvP doesn't incorporate any cooperation. But PvE cooperation is pretty different from PvP. A PvE game that purposefully forces you to group up with people because it makes sure that none of its content is solo-able is different than following some kind of meta that allows your team to fight adequately against another team. The competitive team cooperation mindset doesn't isn't the same kind of cooperation a PvE environment heralds.

[Althena]

I totally get it, and I do love me my cooperate PvE, I just have a competitive streak that still loves working together with people, so PvP is absolutely my cup of tea. ☕

[Skunkworks]

One of the elements of MMOs that has always fascinated me is the emergent gameplay. I love how MMOs spawn their own unique language for PVE and PVP system; how they create their own economies and schedule of values; and even how players creatively use mechanics for 'grieving'. It seems like every player comes to an MMO with their own idea of what 'winning' means. I always though this was the reason for their explosive growth in the late 90s/early 2000s.

[Althena]

I was kind of sad to see the focus shift in the early days, from feeling like you were the hero making your way in a world full of people where you could create your own notoriety ("Wow, there goes Sinndra, shes a PvP legend", for example)

[Mr Croft]

I really wish I could have played mmos in those ever quest days. So people talk about games like that and guild wars 2 with such relish. Unfortunately for me the only "mmo" I played in those days was runescape and I still play that game off and on every so often. For the newer crop of mmos ffxiv is the only game to keep me hooked in long term. I've tried lost ark, tera, pso2, indictus, two worlds, black desert, and skyforge. Nothing keep me longer than a year tops. I feel like I missed the golden Era

[Destian]

I really wish I could have played mmos in those ever quest days. So people talk about games like that and guild wars 2 with such relish. Unfortunately for me the only "mmo" I played in those days was runescape and I still play that game off and on every so often. For the newer crop of mmos ffxiv is the only game to keep me hooked in long term. I've tried lost ark, tera, pso2, indictus, two worlds, black desert, and skyforge. Nothing keep me longer than a year tops. I feel like I missed the golden Era

Eh, yes and no.

Older MMOs felt like more was at stake, but as a result, losing valuable items felt awful and everything was a massive, grindy time sink because that was the only way they could milk more subscription time out of you.

I look back on all the things I ground out and I'd honestly love to have that time back.

[Random Encounter]

I remember seeing the likes of EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, and Asheron's Call back in the late 90s/early 00s and being really fascinated with the idea of how expansive and engrossing an MMO could be. But I didn't make a serious foray into MMOs until I started playing Final Fantasy XI back in 2005. I probably caught the last third of the golden MMO age right before things got saturated and a little played out. I loved my time in XI, and there's only a few things I would change about that time. But I know where I currently am in my life would make it difficult and probably inadvisable to put that kind of time into an MMO again.

Aside from the online Final Fantasies, I also spent a lot of time playing Uncharted Waters Online. It's a little gacha for some, probably a little niche for others, but for me it hit the right buttons. Considering the game has swapped three providers and had a total server wipe, I still go back every now and then to check in on some people I know there.